002 - Maude Andrade

Maude Andrade is a mixed media painter who grew up in a family of artists and eccentrics. She is a talented artist and a skilled businesswoman. Hear about her experience in the arts and her process for creating beautiful work.

Find her work at:
Maude Andrade

Alex:0:00

Apollo Road, episode zero zero two. My guest is Maude Andrade. Maude is a mixed media painter and I'm gonna go ahead and just quote the bio from her website cause that's much better than mine. She grew up in a family of artists and eccentrics. She has lived in Tennessee, California, Maine, New Hampshire, and New Mexico, where she has spent most of her life. In 1987 she graduated from the University of New Hampshire with a bachelor of science in botany and a minor in chemistry. Maude is no stranger to the art s how circuits. And she's also one of those crafty artists who has diversified her income and her work and is very calculated in the way she approaches her artistic expression. And I like that. I think as a, as a business student, u m, student to finance myself, I tend to balance the creative and the, you know, brutal "pay the bills at the end of the month", u h, m entality. So I'm glad that Maude had a lot of wisdom to share as an experienced a rtist and business woman. So without further ado, please welcome Maude A ndrade.

mixed dialogue:1:39

[ Music intro ]

Alex:1:41

Maude, how's, u h, how's life been as an artist?

Maude Andrade:1:45

Well, life as an artist has been phenomenal. It's been tiring. It's always educational. Um, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Alex:1:59

That's actually what my one of my other guests said exactly is like, I wouldn't trade it for anything. Yeah, I think that's going to be a common theme with many artists. And how long have you been in the arts or whatever you would consider that as professional or amateur?

Maude Andrade:2:15

Yeah. Um, I guess because I grew up around an artist, I feel like art's been in my life since day one. [Was i t your mother?] Well, my mother and so she always had a studio funky, super funky, u m, nicer as I was more like I 'm in later grade school i n junior high. So you know, she would just, I feel like I got an education, I call it homeschooling art homeschooling. So that's how I learned. And partly because she went to art school and was an artist, she forbid art classes. So I was never allowed to take them on. Unless it was somebody she m aybe sanctioned. And that was a workshop. And I never really thought about being an artist, but I grew up around artists and I certainly knew from an early age that they were different. And I w ere, she tells a story over and over that I always said, oh mom, your friends are so much more fun than dad's .

Alex:3:24

I'm sure she, she loved that comment.

Maude Andrade:3:26

Yeah , she did. I mean, she's told it for many years and I don't know , tell me the beginning of the question, again?

Alex:3:33

Yeah . Just like how long and when you consider , um, your career as a whole, whether it was pretty defined or you kind of got into it with a meandering path.

Maude Andrade:3:45

Yeah, I stumbled into it. And so I went to college trying not to be an artist cause my mother shouldn't say, don't be one. But my parents said, go learn something where you'll, you can have a career.

Alex:4:00

And that's, that's what, that's the speech I got before college. So I totally, totally understand. Yeah .

Maude Andrade:4:05

And I, and my son is not an artist and I'm kind of happy for that. Right. Because as much as I wouldn't trade this for anything, it's also hard.

Alex:4:17

Yeah. And the risk is, I'd say it's a very understated, I mean it's, it's easy to see the, you know, go to someone's gallery opening and because they're there, that must mean that they're making it and they're doing well. Right. But any artist will tell you, like there , they might've just barely got there and they don't know where they're going after that. So I think that's one of the hard things to convey is how risky it is. Yeah. As a, as a broad field. Um, and so that's interesting.

Maude Andrade:4:48

But then also I have known many, many artists that I respect immensely. I mean, who I think are just fantastic and a lot of them , uh, don't get any traction in the art world at all.

Alex:5:04

Why do you think that is?

Maude Andrade:5:05

I think they're too far ahead and the general art, public art gallery can't handle their work or it's where they haven't caught up to it yet. I've watched many people who are too far ahead of a curve , um, get slammed and then in a few years, other people are doing whatever they were doing.

Alex:5:28

Right . That's interesting because it's, you know, in the, in the art realm, there's the market of it, of, you know, people that are making a living on it. And then there's people that are really pushing the boundaries and they don't always, you know, it's not always the same people and it's usually the ones pushing the boundaries or , you know, it's either not their main source of income or it is, and they're just so talented that, you know, it's just pushing them forward. Yeah. But it's, it's such a weird, you know, what's a weird mix.

Maude Andrade:6:01

And then the other thing I think is very defining is , is that I don't many people who are really good and they can't cope with the business part of it. And I myself feel like sometimes I'm good at it and a lot of times I'm not. And the older I get and the more I understand how much of an introvert I am and a contrarian , um, I know that's one of my failings in a lot of this is not working the system well.

Alex:6:38

Right. And that's, that's common. I, I definitely agree with you and identify with the introvert and a contrarian point of view, but I do know that you sell on Etsy, so that's a great, I mean that's, you know, you're utilizing the tools, that's like a new tool for a lot of artists that...has that been going well?

Maude Andrade:6:59

It is. I like , I really like Etsy. Now. There are problems with Etsy, but I'm laughing because I feel like the folks that created Etsy, which I'm very thankful for, my impression is , is that they feel like they invented the craft movement and the DIY movement. And as far as, because my mother was, you know, in one of the original craft movements started some of the original craft fairs here in New Mexico. Um, they've missed a whole history.

Alex:7:33

Is that interest in like the literature or how they phrase things?

Maude Andrade:7:38

It permeates the whole thing. Now that being said, right. I feel like the ACC crowd had taken [and that's the American craft council.] Yeah. Had taken the craft business to a certain place and they haven't moved it forward. And I do feel like Etsy has moved some of the online selling forward and you know, I love it because it's the quickest, easiest way to have a website. It's safe. I mean, I love it cause I can get an order while I'm at my day job. And I can go home and I stock so I can pack and ship five minutes done.

mixed dialogue:8:28

Right. How long have you been , um , officially like selling on Etsy since '09. So you were really early actually. Yeah . And really early . Really terrible at it. Yeah. So I didn't sell very much and well I'd imagine back then that, so you might not have been terrible at it so much as it wasn't really common place to buy art online. I can't remember that far because I wasn't really, you know, I was, I was in high school. Um, you know, now it's like you expect everything online and it is, but back then, I'm trying to think that's, that was still, you know, well, so let me give you an example. So I think my photos for that kind of thing are different from what I was used to then. I didn't understand tagging [inaudible] and , and so it never occurred to me to use my name in the tags, which is very simple, basic stuff. But it , but I figured if somebody was finding me, they already knew my name. Right. So they would just search your name and yeah . It'll pop up. Yeah. So the other thing that I think is great about Etsy is it gave me an education in just online. Yeah. And building a website. Now I've don't code, so I haven't built a website, but then the learning curve on any template that I've used has been much, much faster since I did at c .

Alex:9:56

Yeah, that's a good point. That's it. It does teach you , um, some of the modern technologies in it in a way you wouldn't expect. Right.

Maude Andrade:10:06

And then I also think that it's been a great education in watching people who are super successful on Etsy. Why are they, what and their product, why their product is so good, why it's sell so much. And so conversely with what I've always done, which predominantly the clothing on Etsy has always been black, black tee shirts or black whatever. So it's not the easiest thing to photograph. And then you take some local folks like Kei and Molly textiles , which I think is like the perfect model for an online for any, well it's for, you know , direct sales and online it's, you can photograph it, it's bright, it's graphic, you can ship it easily, right? It's gift, it's personal [and the price point on that is definitely in the realm of most people I'd imagine.] Yeah , yeah .

Alex:11:05

Yes. There's a couple of couple of points there that I wanted to follow up on. You said that the tagging in regards to your name was a big step. I think I, and I've heard this from other sources, but you know, this day and age, the way to really , um, get by, is to turn your name or yourself into a brand because nobody else can out-compete you on yourself. And I think that's a great point that you know, you're representing your work and if people know your name, they're going to know your brand and it's easier for them to, you know, get into your brand and explore . Right. And I think a lot of artists don't realize that they do that. I mean by, by the nature of making something and selling it to somebody, it kind of has your name on it. Right?

Maude Andrade:11:58

Yeah. And that gets into the, you know, the buzz word of authenticity and you, and you can't, I can't be what I'm not. So I would see other people, [I mean, you could with people. People are good at seeing through that now they are fast .] I couldn't keep up with it. Maybe if you had an art department or somebody directing it, you could, but you have to be who you are. Right. And, but it brings up one of the downsides of Etsy specifically in that, like I'll , let's say I purchase a pair of earrings, which I did, which I love, and went back to find them and all I remembered was that I purchased it on Etsy. I didn't remember the person's name or business name now. It was in obviously in my search and my purchases.

mixed dialogue:12:51

But that is one of the downsides of Etsy because easy to just pass things on or forget . Yeah , yeah, yeah. Hmm. That is an interesting balance because it is a great, it's an access to a market, right? Everyone's kind of there to buy something. Yeah.

Maude Andrade:13:11

Now the other thing that it's, I can tell my sales are driven on there, by boutiques that, and especially in New Mexico, let's say, especially Santa Fe, somebody's traveling and they come and buy one of my t-shirts at the store and then, but it's a higher end t - shirt. They only get one. And then if they fall in love with it, then they'll buy from me on Etsy. That's where they find me.

Alex:13:36

And so explain the t-shirts that you make because they are very high quality.

Maude Andrade:13:43

Yeah. So they're made of organic, bamboo and cotton. And the wonderful thing about bamboo is it's strong. And then specifically with black, which is the most of my sales , um, it doesn't fade. It holds dye , not like a cotton t-shirt , um, which will turn dull or gray ish steel blue kind of after awhile . And Yeah. And so I also know now from experience that you can have these shirts for about six years, wash them once a week, throw them in the dryer on high. You don't have to pamper them. And at about six years you might get a hole in them. And I've used other tee shirts out there from other companies and they fall apart in two to three years. Yeah.

Alex:14:32

Which is not bad for a tee shirt, but it's not ideal. And so like with a stronger t-shirt, I mean...

:14:37

So that's why with, you know, when, when I've sold the higher end tee shirts, people , people will, and especially men and I product cater mostly to men. Now. Um , they're kind of hesitant about it. Right. Well , why is this and what's it really? Is this really going to be worth this? Right. And now have men, I have a wonderful loyal following of men. They come back and they was like, Oh, my shirt finally wore out. Oh, I'm so glad you still have it. And they'll replace what they bought, you know, six, eight years ago.

Alex:15:12

Yeah. And I still have , um, the t-shirt that you gave me, I mean, it was probably about six, seven years ago now. And yeah, like you said, it's still, you know, black as night.

Maude Andrade:15:24

Yeah. But they evolution of working on these shirts was, you know, I used to print , um, hand-woven fabric that I made . And so I made this really high end clothing and I got to a place where I didn't want to do that and the market was changing. And so I , you know, I didn't really think this out, but looking back now, I realized , well, of course I would gravitate towards working on a high end tee shirt and I know that market. And essentially in the downturn in what, '08, you know, the people that had money but maybe not quite as much, they would buy the shirt but not the high end clothing. So it was a real natural progression for me. The other thing is , is it's given me a niche in that a lot of people who are more into t-shirt printing for the graphics. And that's not to say that I'm not, they don't understand that market and, and they don't, I , and I say that I think, I mean, because nobody's pushed it the way I have.

Alex:16:33

Yeah. And that's, that's a, that's good insight because, you know, I dunno if you kind of could sense that as you were transitioning. Like, oh, there's something here and there. I haven't really seen anything that's a direct, you know, comparison. And so maybe,

Maude Andrade:16:50

well there was certainly on the west coast, especially La and boutiques out there, I would watch, you know, the $75 tee shirt, they're not printed. But I always kind of paid attention to that. And then as you know, when you go to a craft show, the public will tell you what they want immediately. So the first show I did with the tee shirts, I had organic cotton from American apparel and I had the bamboo shirts and nobody would buy the cotton once they touched the bamboo. And so that was over. That was my market test .

Alex:17:26

That's okay. So this is a great segue into art shows. Um, and I think you touched on one of the best , um, features of an art show is that it's , it's literally an a/b test or a/b/c test for your work because you get, you know, thousands of people walking through, you know, they'll come in your booth, give you free, you know, they're giving you free advice. Um, so art shows one was your first one

Maude Andrade:17:57

That I did. I did on my own? Yeah. It was in front of the co-op in Nob Hill. And Oh gosh, I want to say late eighties, early nineties. Okay . Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Cool .

Alex:18:13

The knob hill in the 90s. That's that in my mind. That's like a , the dinosaurs. Well, the glory days, I mean, so my parents had the Moderno retail store in Nob Hill, but it was...And so this was the late nineties. So I remember vaguely what that scene was like. So I can't even imagine, you know, if it was, you know, 10 or more years before that even..just original and authentic. And I'd imagine it's got that kind of feel to it.

Maude Andrade:18:49

That one specifically didn't. But other ones did. But there are a bunch of things I want to talk about that. So it wasn't too far off the heels of trickle down economics from Reagan . Sure. So my first check, from first thing I sold was written from the [inaudible] from Sandia. You know, people who had jobs at Sandia at the lab . And I thought, yeah, yeah. And I thought there's trickled down. The defense industry just bought a piece of handmade, woven, whatever it was that I was selling. Right. So there was trickle-down . Now, the other thing you probably don't know, and I don't know if I ever told you it was the first time I did Scottsdale on my own or maybe second time you were a baby and I met your parents through Eduardo. Oh Wow. Okay . So your parents were setting up the outdoor playpen in the grass by the booth and we all, I don't know how to booths nearby. So yeah, that was when I first met you first met your parents.

Alex:19:59

Wow. Okay. So that's, I do, I have heard some of the stories about that playpen. I don't remember any of that, but that gives me a good context for the timeline

Maude Andrade:20:08

okay . So I have in my history two heydays . Okay. So my mother, the heyday of New Mexico in the 70s [inaudible] craft shows that was uh , you know, Hippie Extravaganza , heyday of craft shows. That was one sort of thing. And then I guess it was a lot, I associated a lot with your parents , um, of some of those years on the East Coast at the Baltimore ACC shows. And so for me it was, I want to say '94, '94 to...about early two thousands. Okay. But it was those late nineties that were really [inaudible]

Alex:20:55

yeah . That sounds about right from what my dad has told me and what I vaguely remember. Um, and so for the people that might not understand, give us the context as to the difference between that little show in Nob Hill and the Baltimore show. You know, cause those are very different, different animals .

Maude Andrade:21:14

Yeah. That's would be like third, third world market to um, you know, fancy high rise New York City. Yeah. That was a world of difference. And, and speaking to that, I mean, when I first made that step to , uh , selling on the east coast and I went the first year and I had on all my western down jacket cause the shows were in the winter and I was in Baltimore and I went to one of the markets and I realized I, was not in a great neighborhood and I stuck out like a sore thumb. And when I went home I bought a completely separate wardrobe. Only for the east coast and it lived in my closet and I pulled it out once a year.

Alex:22:07

That's very enlightening for people that don't know that , uh, you know, back then. Yeah....You could be in the wrong neighborhood in two minutes.

Maude Andrade:22:21

Oh yeah. I had to, I was, I was seriously lost and I was seriously not in a safe place. And I found that, I looked at this woman, I said, you know, I really need you to help me get back.

Alex:22:36

...was that like the first day after you'd set up?

Maude Andrade:22:40

oh yeah. Set up the show. Yeah . Yeah. Well, and I was, you know, staying at the days inn and you know, the people checking in front of me was a hooker and her, John , I mean, it was, it was, those were the days,

Alex:22:54

man. Those , that sounds like the days, I mean , you know, now it's just safe travel.

Maude Andrade:23:00

Oh yeah. I'm sleeping. So , so let's fast forward to, you know , when I knew the drill and I had the right wardrobe and things were good and I'm staying at the Sheraton and times were good enough that you didn't have to share a room with somebody. Right. And so you do Baltimore. And then I had a limo driver who had picked me up on the dock at the end of the show and drive me to New York with, you know, the majority of my samples. And then Josh would, you know, I had two booth setups, so the Baltimore booth would be left in Baltimore and the second set up would be in New York. And I, you know, get dropped off at the hotel. Near what? Right around the corner from Carnegie Hall. And, and what was that Deli that , uh, Woody Allen always went to Carnegie Deli and so 57th street and uh, he dropped me off and I take the bags up, get a drink at the bar, and then set up the next day.

Alex:24:03

Man, that's uh... Okay. So I'd say you're definitely in the upper tier of artists who really, you know, took it as a , you know, as serious of profession as you could. Um, there's definitely different levels, different, you know , interests in that whole way of selling and not everybody, you know, did the full blown shows every year, all year for however many decades. So what was , um, what was your experience doing your first couple of shows and then realizing, oh, I'm going to do more of these?

Maude Andrade:24:39

Well, the first couple of big shows, I knew that I had to learn a lot more. I was a country bumpkin in that respect. And I also had to toughen up , um, with, with the buyers. I was very , uh, naive.

Alex:24:58

what do you mean? Like negotiating or if people just come in for general information?

Maude Andrade:25:04

no, negotiating the business part of it. And then, but, but the wonderful thing about the craft community, which I'm sure you know is , is that I would just ask somebody something, or, oh my gosh, I'm having this problem. And then they would, they would help you. And, you know, one of the classics that sticks in my mind was this very sweet couple from Minnesota [that] did jewelry and she had these baskets. And , and I said, you know, what do you guys do with the, you know, COD and the net 30 and that's dating me now. I mean, nobody does that now.

Alex:25:41

Right? I , I know those, I know those terms. I mean, there's still a few retailers that I, or suppliers that I deal with that this is pretty commonplace , but most people under a certain age wouldn't know it . Right.

Maude Andrade:25:52

I don't even learn that, don't even learn it cause he's bad. Right. Um, and so I said , and so, you know, how, what do you, how do you deal with some of these people in the references? And they said, well, you know, the people we know, we give them net 30 and, and I can't remember what they said about cod. And then they said, and then there's also the NFW category. And I said, what's that? And it remind , remember, sweet, gentle people from Minnesota. They said, it means no fucking way. [They just get a rubber stamp.] And, yeah . Yeah. They would just know in terms, they would put NFW and they said, when we get home we just rip 'em up. Wow. And so when I told my husband this when I got home, because you know, I'd had trouble. Yeah. He said, you can't do that. I said, I certainly can and I certainly will. And I did. You got to know which ones were NFW. Yeah.

Alex:26:49

Ooh. That's like , that's so good that , um, that you've mentioned that, you know, you have to toughen up. Yeah. I mean, and that is a great example of that.

:26:57

But going back to, I think the original part of that question about, you know, wanting to do it and why I stayed in it, it was all that I wanted. It was what I wanted to do. And when I started gaining success with it, I just thrived on it . I loved every minute of it. I love the people I was meeting and the ACC shows, I mean, the folks there set a high bar. I mean, when I first, I mean, it was scary. It made you really up up your game on booth display quality, you know, just thinking about everything , um, and interestingly, so I had goals and , and so, you know, I got in San Francisco and then I got in Baltimore and then I consistently got involved more than I got in the Smithsonian, which took me eight years of applications before I got in. And then I was in like six times and then I got in the Philly show and then, and that , so I still had one more thing I hadn't quite done. And that was getting a article in Ornament magazine and in some of the other magazines. And then I didn't predict this. I never imagined it. Once that happened, I was done. I didn't really have any more goals to chomp at and it just happened to coincide with, you know, a number of other things and taking a painting class and I kind of knew it was over. Hmm . [About what year was that?] Yeah , 2001.

mixed dialogue:28:48

Well that was, I mean, there was definitely an inflection point, I think for art shows overall. Um , yeah. Hmm . And I got lucky. So what you're talking about is it took me, what, maybe three more years, so 2004, like I did a slow exit. Sure . And a number of people talk to me the

Maude Andrade:29:10

After that that I, when I took my paintings to Scottsdale they said, oh, you are so smart to get out when you did. And it was just sort of dumb luck. But I, I've watched other people who've stayed in it all these years and watch them slowly get kind of ground down.

Alex:29:28

Yeah. Yeah. That's um, timing was definitely a huge factor in life regardless of what field you're in, but particularly for artists you know, they just made me think that, you know, timing is one thing, but doing our shows, you know, as a career, there's so many factors that are way beyond your control. So it's impressive that, you know, you kind of had these goals, you could see clearly how to get there. I don't know if you were looking at getting in certain shows because you knew they would kind of connect the dots and it would lead to, Oh, if I can just get an article in one of these magazines, it would be like a good arc and then you're going to get enough publicity. Right. So I think it sounds like you had a great , um, planning phase at some point.

Maude Andrade:30:20

Yeah. I mean, well, there was, gosh, I also think there was luck. There was a lot of luck. But then the other thing was that made that luck more a what conscious or the , that there was planning or strategy was listening to offhand comments from people

Alex:30:41

As they're in your booth or walking out?

Maude Andrade:30:44

certain store owners, which is say something that you would then capitalize on or move, move a lot. Like if your , the work I was doing was going kind of in one direction, they'd make a comment and I'd be like, oh, I need to take it back this way or just change this material.

Alex:31:06

Right. Do you, can you think of any kind of examples or do you remember any specific ones?

Maude Andrade:31:12

Yeah, yeah. So I had worked with this store. I'd always wanted to get in with this store and in the Evanston [Chicago] area. And so they finally invited me for a show and I sent, this was before I was doing the chenille clothing that I got really known for and, but I was doing the same thing on cotton and I send them a bunch of work. It's sold really well. Next year comes around, I send it again and hardly anything sold. And the store owner said, you know, anything in chenille sold. So I thought, you know what, I can do this on chenille. So that's what I did. And I went, that was when I went to Baltimore and my business exploded.

Alex:31:57

Hmm. That's great because you were perceptive enough and maybe, and maybe perception is one thing, but then as an artist w you know, changing your direction is really hard. If you have, if you have a fiery creative spirit in someone's like, you know, oh, if your work were this way, maybe not completely different, but if it were just a little bit more this way or it's...

Maude Andrade:32:21

well, see I knew that everybody she was talking about worked in that material and made plaid. It was all plaid. And what I was doing was hand painting. And so I knew that I could do it differently.

Alex:32:36

Right. So you could take advantage of the trend. Yeah . But it was still so unique that...

Maude Andrade:32:41

So then the other part of me, and this is very much the contrary and in me and devious part of me. So you know how craft shows you apply with a set of slides in November, the shows in February? Well that show where she told me that information was in October. So I had applied, basically this work didn't exist and I thought, okay, well to be with the rules of ACC, I have to , how am I gonna duplicate the stuff I applied with in this new material so I don't get kicked out? Right . Which was a real fear at the high end of things.

Alex:33:21

Right. Cause I in shows they do definitely , uh , say police the rules much more than you know, the lower tier shows.

Maude Andrade:33:28

So here's the other funny story about that. So I did it very, very clever. I must say, I'm not going to say I faked a whole technique. Okay . But I mean it was real, it wasn't fake, but I faked a certain technique and one of the big competitors in that dying technique when she found out how well I was doing and when word ran , went around the show, how well he was doing all the matriarchs of the ACC clothing thing all made the rounds to talk to me because I was suddenly the new kid on the block. But I've been there seven years. And so she specifically came by with yarn in her hand and said, I've been trying to do that. And I sat there and like , ah , I fake this whole thing. How am I gonna not tell her that I didn't do that? And I just sat there and, and played naive and went to, you know, got through it, went to dinner and am not naming names with my mother and I because who used to help me at the shows, I said, oh my gosh,

Alex:34:53

that's a powerful image just, the matriarchs of the, what do you say? Fiber. They've just [Yeah, the clothing] just descending upon your booth. I mean , I just imagine...

mixed dialogue:35:01

No, well they each made their rounds to do that. It was quite deliberate. Very tactical. Seems like the , yeah . And a lot of the store owners were the same way. Oh, we discovered this new person and so I've been here for years and, and again, that was another , um, education in marketing because my old, my loyal customers from those previous years, they didn't even look at the new work. Yeah. Ooh, that is tricky. That's okay .

Alex:35:38

I mean, yeah, because most artists kind of build up a small following and client base in each city. Right. Each show, they're there year after year. So to maybe risk turning on the, on those patrons, you know, it's tough, but if it's, there's a payoff right, it's always a risk. There's a risk and...

Maude Andrade:35:55

I couldn't , that was a lesson I didn't even know existed until then. And I've had it happen in, in other, other things too down the road.

Alex:36:08

Yeah. That's ah, I mean I think that's just kind of what you get when you, when your feedback loop is nice and short and you're getting, you know, getting refined, you can, you can adapt very quickly and you can also a/b test very quickly. It seems like you do end up hitting a lot of snags and sticky situations, but they're so frequent that you can usually get around them. And if you're doing it in small ways...

Maude Andrade:36:34

you can be more nimble. Yeah . Now that we're talking about it though, that was such a profound lesson that I've used it in, in many other instances in my creative life. And so the big takeaway was you have the, in this case, the garment, the , the construction dialed in. So let's just change the material. You can change the whole market. Hmm . So, yeah, I've done that with the tee shirts. So if you go from a cotton to the higher end, change the market, right. Um, with painting the same way and then times when I've been stuck, especially in the clothing and especially towards the end when I was not quite done with it, what I did was I took away all my familiar materials and I bought ones that like if it was dyes that worked, you know, with formula A, I bought dyes that only worked formula B. So I had to force myself to work differently. And so I that, you know, that wasn't about market change. It was more about dealing with a creative block

Alex:37:55

that is quite profound and I think that is very hard to do. It is . Um, so it's amazing that you've done that and also incorporated that into your process. It sounds like that's kind of... You're not afraid of getting stuck in anymore. I hadn't mentioned , no, I'm terrified. But you have a process , you have a process to deal with it . Right. That's , that's a season. That's something that I, I find fascinating is that every artist has a different approach. And some of those approaches seemingly are unconscious. You know, they, there's some people that it's like that it just seems like they just go and go, you know, they're just, they're just making things or just designing the, you know, they don't think about it. Um, I'm much more of the type that wants to, you know, systematize it to some extent. And I find that I'm more creative within bounds. Right. And I think your example is perfect of keep the design the same, change the material. It's, you know, it changes everything and yet it changes nothing. It's, that's such a good way of...

Maude Andrade:39:08

well I'm sure you know that for manufacturing that let's say you can't get a certain supply from your, your trusted supplier and you know that you have to do this stuff. So you order it from a different one and you, you're already anticipating whatever the problems are going to be. Right, right. So yeah , it's just, I used to, the catch phrase I use , it was a call it working the mistakes. So sometimes those curve balls that are thrown to you lead to the next big discovery. You just have, it's not a comfortable place to be. Sure . You have to work through it. Yes ,

Alex:39:45

Definitely out of the comfort zone. But that's, you know, the dragon metaphor, it's like when you go fight a dragon, right . It's scary. You'll probably die. But if you do somehow succeed, there's a bunch of gold there waiting for you. And that's, you know, I , so there are other artists I interviewed said the same thing. He said , uh , you know, that's , um, that's just part of the process of figuring out how to work around things and not give up on a project. You know, no matter what.

Maude Andrade:40:20

Yeah. And I think the thing when you said you're comf , you know, that I would be comfortable with that change. That's one of the struggles, at least for me as I get older and wiser and maybe have more experience, is you don't allow yourself that as much, or at least I don't, I finding myself being a little too fearful about some of that .

Alex:40:43

Do you think that's, is he like, I always wonder with, with people that know that there are certain like inflection points in their career where, oh , that was, there was a lot of luck there. There was, you know, I wonder if you start to see the full timeline and you're like, okay , I can't rely on luck every time. Something. Um, but clearly it's not just luck. And so do you think it's the fear comes more from just the iteration of it, of like there's going to be that one time where it's different or...

mixed dialogue:41:14

it's just knowing too much. Let's say an analogy would be music and we all know that a lot of people as they age, they don't explore new music. That's true. Right? I know. Particularly , uh , egregious . Yeah. I think I , I don't know . I think it's a lot about about aging. Hmm .

Alex:41:40

It's interesting. I, I wouldn't consider myself as, you know , a "fully grown" artist. I as still too young and I haven't really produced any , um, I haven't really produced a lot of work of any one type. So, while I know that, you know, being creative and working in the creative field is kind of what I'm going to do for me to kind of imagine it, you know, with some foresight is so , um, it's so weird to me because I've met so many people like you that have been in the game for decades. And you know, it's just, I, I'm surrounded by masters, you know, master players and they have seen the ups, the downs, they have a process, they have, you know, a medium or a style. And whether that changes throughout, throughout the journey , um , or not, you know, it just gives me an interesting, you know , place. Cause I know I'm , I'm sitting right back here at the starting line, you know, it's just, it's weird just seeing the field.

Maude Andrade:42:53

Yeah. Well I also think what you're facing is a field that's changing faster than what we experienced. Because we used to be able to, you know, people talk to us about five year plans and 10 year plans. [You can't have that now] we're talking what, six months maybe if that, yeah. And then I do think, well, and I've wonder, well, let's see back up.

mixed dialogue:43:21

I've wondered how you have processed all the people you've been around. I'm not sure I have and maybe you can't . Maybe you shouldn't. So, yeah. Well that's actually a good point.

Alex:43:34

I'm sure a lot of it's subconscious at this point. And as I think about it, you know, yeah, you're right. There is a point where maybe I shouldn't think about it because it's, you know, it's more, it's what it should be left to the realm of the unspeakable

Maude Andrade:43:47

Well I think like anything, you, you look at different people, like you take various of your parents' friends and they know all the best in the country and you say, well, what do I like about that person? What are they doing right that I want to emulate? And that one , I want to emulate that. Right . And certainly for me, in the painting art world, there's, there are a lot of women, you know, older than me, that that came up through the ranks and they had to fight. They had to fight for every centimeter they got in the male dominated art world. And it's made them, a lot of them , not very nice people to be around. And so, you know, for me, I am eternally grateful the fight that they did because they made it so that my life can be a lot easier, can let me, you know, have how things that they didn't have. But I also don't want to be that.

Alex:44:56

Yeah, I'd say that's a wise, a wise decision. I mean cause you're right, it's, you know, you survived too many wars and what do you become that grizzled general, you know, that's...

Maude Andrade:45:08

and then I guess the other thing I'd say, and I've tried to do this a little bit more now, is because you know, all these folks, how the amazing opportunity to go and maybe ask for a month internship. Now I don't know. Your Dad and I didn't necessarily have that to do. I mean we had to figure it out kind of all on our own. But you have a whole community to tap into of people whose skills actually aren't even being recorded.

Alex:45:43

[inaudible] that's actually a good point. Um, I have definitely thought about the internship , um, approach and I often feel very undeserving and , uh not that they, not that I wouldn't deserve that opportunity, but that, you know, knowing so many people that started with, you know, literally nothing, or one paintbrush or one tool and, you know, made it, is humbling to me and it almost makes me want to , I feel like I have to do it that way, even though there's better and faster ways to do it. It's just a feeling that I get, not that , you know , I'm going to act on that, but that's how I, that's my immediate reaction to, you know, trying to learn from everybody that put their lives into it. Um, there was another point that you just made that , um , I was gonna talk about, but...

Maude Andrade:46:36

I think the other thing is, is that you just, and this sounds so simple and I don't know if it's trite, just do, yeah, you just gotta do it and keep putting it out there. Then the other thing is, is don't be afraid to destroy stuff to just move on because sometimes there's a piece that you learned from their, their diary and you know, someday I would love to put on a show where everybody invited brings their transitional piece,

Alex:47:10

the one that they didn't dare show the public. Yeah. Hm . I think that would be very...that would be very , um, educational for the audience because I think so.

mixed dialogue:47:26

I think it would be educational for the art, for the artists attending it and I think some of the audience, I think some of the audience, I don't know if they make the connections and actually you're right, it's,

Alex:47:39

I think the artists would definitely recognize it and appreciate it immediately. Um, yeah, the disconnects between the artists and the patron or the audience, right. Cause not all, not everybody in the audience is a patron. So I should define it broadly. Um, that a lot of the audience just doesn't really know or doesn't know how things are made or how long it takes you or why . Um, but to me it seems like the successful pieces are the ones where the person walking by can see your process through the piece. It's not, you know, it's not like, oh, here's your piece that's on the wall. And I like the way it looks. It's, they see through it almost. They see what went into it, whether they are conscious of that or not. I think.

Maude Andrade:48:24

yeah. So going back to the New Mexico arts and crafts fair one time I was a juror, and so this was, you actually at that time had to bring the actual pieces. This was before they went to slides before they went digital. Right. This was like ancient. Right. The thing I learned from that was that good work radiates... [With you, with you, the artists there or just by itself?] By itself. It's sitting on a table with all these other things and all the good work, I mean, just has a presence. You can't deny it

Alex:49:03

Can't deny it and can't quite describe it either. Right, right, right. Like, you know, you know, it's, it's special for some reason.

Maude Andrade:49:12

Well. And so I would suspect that one of the things you're also, you might be talking about for yourself, having been at the ACC shows, you are surrounded by the best. So it see if this resonates for you cause this is how things kind of go for me after having done that takes a lot to really flip your switch because you've seen so much. That's good. And when you do you know it and you love it.

Alex:49:51

Yeah, I can tell you. Hmm. That definitely resonates because the last few art shows I've been to this year, you know, I'll walk the show real quick just to cover the grounds, see who's there and it's one or two things jump out at me usually. When I was a kid I do remember it was like everything was, you know, fascinating. And so now that I think about it, that was a great question cause now that I think about it, you know, you're right. There's one or two things that I notice at every art show there . I'm like, mm , that I, you know , wants on my, in my space, whatever that is. Yeah, that's definitely, that's definitely something I didn't realize. Had changed.

Maude Andrade:50:40

So I think you've just, you know, you've seen, you've seen an awful lot for [inaudible] . Most people haven't.

Alex:50:47

That's fair. How do you think you would help people that are more of the average population that don't necessarily buy more expensive artwork, but maybe they'll buy a t-shirt but they wanna move to the next thing or a bigger item. Right. How would you help people make that jump?

Maude Andrade:51:11

I am a firm believer in people trusting their gut. I mean, they have to love it. They have to live with it. Yeah. And you know, all the things that I've purchased or traded over the years, I absolutely love them. And in anything I've purchased, because it was the trend or everybody else was, it doesn't hold up over time. I think people really need to trust their gut. And then the other thing is, is let's say they go into a booth and they like something, but they didn't enjoy talking to the artist; trust that too.

Alex:51:49

That's a good point. Um, Steve mentioned that in this last episode that , uh, you know, he could tell when people are drawn in by the work, but then as soon as they talk to you, it's almost like magic. Where are they ? Oh, they're to kind of, ah , good, good. And we're going out , we're going to go through with this and we're, we're happy. Yeah . There's always that little bit of hesitation whether it's, I dunno , but that's not with every buyer, but some buyers definitely.

Maude Andrade:52:18

Yeah. And now I will add a caveat that selling , um, high-end craft and objects, I think all that applies in the painting world. It's not that way. Hmm. It's been a totally different experience. I learned that I needed to step back and not talk to people and that the people I envisioned in my mind for whatever reason being drawn to my work, the people who have been drawn to my work I would never have imagined in a million years.

Alex:52:57

Did that always translate into a sale or at least maybe a relationship that you built over the years and then yeah. Eventual sale. Yeah. Yeah. Cause that's something I, I wonder too is there's plenty of people that can appreciate, you know, whatever they're looking at and they don't necessarily need it or want to buy it, but it's definitely not a judgment on, you know, the value of it. I think you, you've hit a point that I've never really been very educated on that is like two dimensional. That for me, like to value something two dimensional. It's like I have no concept I have . It's whether I like it, whether I would pay for it. It's kind of my own subjective approach, but it seems like, you know , there's some consensus as to whether something can be valued at $2,000, whatever it is. And it has to meet certain design, it has to be put together at least halfway decent, right ? Not necessarily necessarily.

Maude Andrade:53:56

No, no, no. It's a different world. Um, no, there's a lot of ego and a lot of, I've, I've watched a lot of paintings that aren't that good are really selling because the person is, has a reputation or has pushed those prices up. And how the galleries pushed it. Um, it also kind of depends on what categories you're talking about. I think like let's say in a still life categories, there are more rules and there are more you know, actual what really dimensions you can apply to that and where something you can say, oh, and this hits all these marks and that sort of thing. That's a completely different thing. Um, no, in the fine art world it's, it's whatever you can charge and get and do and doesn't matter. And, and I have a , I know somebody whose father is a famous artist and she said that if he put work out in a show and it didn't sell, he'd raise the prices. And believe me, he's a big guy. He's a big dude

Alex:55:15

that see , and that's, I have a, an inkling of how this kind of works. That is the more abstract it is and the more abstract it is, the harder it is to value in price. Like price specifically in a market. Yeah, I guess the market becomes whatever the last person paid for it. Right. And so I guess your point, it's, it really doesn't seem to have a cap.

Maude Andrade:55:42

no, it's no huh . I think there are, you know, I think there are a price points where, you know, anything under $10,000 is a certain game. Yeah . Anything over $10,000 is a whole different ball game. And then certainly for myself, there's sweet spots to to price to size, price to square inch.

Alex:56:14

Do you apply that um, pretty consistently or is it sort of just depends on..

Maude Andrade:56:20

I do, although there are certain paintings that I won't budge on ever and I'm just a gut feeling. [inaudible] no , it's much more conscious. I was lucky enough to be interviewed for the Colores program on PBS. Okay. And when I was pulling together all the images for the woman who was producing it, it was a very interesting review for myself. And then I realized that all my favorite pieces I still own now . So you know, so why is that? Do other people have bought from various series of what I consider good paintings but not my favorites? And so I think that, you know, you hear the phrase "a painter's painter." A lot of my painting friends, those are the pieces they like to , but they're, they're not the buyers. Right? So there's certain things that I know I'm hoping down the road there'll be worth more. So it's absolutely fine not to sell them earlier. And if I don't, I'm pretty not this happened a lot, but if I don't feel like a person is worthy of certain of those pieces, I will not budge on selling it.

Alex:57:50

I liked that. That's , um, I mean that , it shows me that you're, you're playing the long game. It's evident that you've been playing the long game. But I think like you said, as you get older, do you know the game kinda changes a little bit and you start looking back, you start looking forward, you have a better sense of where you're at now?

Maude Andrade:58:10

Well, you'll have to talk to Tane someday when he's sitting on a painting. I'll be sure to , uh, take careful notes and record what you know , what I'm supposed to ask about and , well, and um, legacy is an interesting thing and, and something you said reminded me of where it was. It was in the late...late 1980s when , um, a national company stole one of the designs on my clothing and it worked out very well for me. I got a nice settlement, I got a bunch of money for it. Um, but I am, I also had to copyright it and I couldn't copyright the process or the garment, but I could copyright the graphics. So wherever I can I do that and those I can transfer to, you know, my husband and son can inherit those.

Alex:59:11

That is smart of you to, you know, consider the, the whole career in it is like there , there is an afterwards, maybe not for every , every person, but there is an afterwards for your work and however that is, you know, you want to handle it is, you know, and there's plenty of options in that regard, but it's cool. It's cool to see that you've thought about that and set a plan for it .

mixed dialogue:59:37

Well, and the other thing I do with some, with the paintings and I need to do a little bit more now is I destroy stuff. So destroy it . I do. Yeah . Yeah, I do. Do you , uh , have a ceremony? No. No. Right. Private destroying quickly so that my husband can't say, don't do that and I don't chicken out. Yeah. Um, but yeah, they go to the dump.

Alex:1:00:06

Well, I think that's a great place to end the creation of something and the destruction of something. Yeah. It's all, it's all of the process. Um, tell people where they can find you, where they can find your work.

Maude Andrade:1:00:22

So let's see. My new studio is in the North Valley of Albuquerque and you can contact me via email from my painting website, maude-andrade.com Then painting wise, Mariposa Gallery represents a lot of my abstract work Patina Gallery in Santa Fe represents mostly the work that I do with graphite. And let's see, t-shirts, Mariposas, Spurline, and Red River Mercantile

Alex:1:00:57

Awesome. And then , uh, you mentioned your website. Do you have any other social media?

Maude Andrade:1:01:02

Yeah, Instagram, modmaude1 Instagram. I don't do Facebook, don't do Twitter and I barely keep up on Instagram.

Alex:1:01:12

Perfect. Well Maude, it was a pleasure. We'll , I'm sure as this project kind of progresses, we'll definitely have you back on next . I think you know , you're one of the, you don't , one of the elites and you have plenty of experience and knowledge and stories to share.

Maude Andrade:1:01:29

Well, what I want is, is we need to get you on the other side and we need to ask you more questions.

Alex:1:01:35

Yes, that episode will come in time. Promise. Alright , nice. Thank you.

Speaker 8:1:01:51

[inaudible]

Maude Andrade:1:01:53

Hey , thanks again for listening. Get in touch at apolloroad.com/podcast. Again, this is my bootstrapped project and if you want to get in touch with me or any of the artists on the podcast, just head over to that link and , uh , support the podcast. I think I'll put up a survey for listener feedback and artist feedback. So, yeah, have at it. See you next time. Thanks.