007 - Nha Vuu + Chris Wheeler

The Apollo Road Podcast is back with another artist interview - this time with two guests Nha and Chris. They were very kind to let me tour their studio and sit down with them for a conversation.

From their gallery website:

"Chris Wheeler grew up in Philadelphia and stayed in the northeast until he graduated from St. Joseph’s university. Shortly after, he began to travel to Europe for months at a time. He spent most of his days in the art museums and galleries storing ideas and absorbing the creativity. At the age of 26 he moved to Seattle where he began painting and sculpting in a small studio.

In 1979, Nha Vuu (of Chinese ethnicity) and her family fled from their home in Vietnam to escape communist persecution. After living for two years as refugees the Vuu family was granted asylum in the United States. Nha lived in Seattle for twenty years before making a bold return to Asia to study Chinese painting and travel abroad.

During her travels to nearly twenty countries, she was able to sketch and take photographs for future projects as well as develop ideas for the whole series of paintings which are always in the works. Nha now lives in Fort Collins, Colorado with her husband Chris and daughter Sierra."


Alex Velasquez :0:01

All right, we're live the Apollo Road Podcast. I'm here with Nha Vuu, and Chris Wheeler. How are you guys doing?

Nha Vuu :0:10

Good...

Chris Wheeler :0:11

Good...

Alex Velasquez :0:12

So for context, it is July 15 2020, the year of many things. But right now, in the art world, it's COVID-19 really up ending the whole way of doing business as an artist. So what do you guys...What do you guys think about what's going on right now?

Nha Vuu :0:37

Well, we're just all hanging on and figuring things out along the way and trying to, you know, enjoy our life because it's time that we've never had before. and spending time with our daughter, you know, everything in the past decade has happened so fast. And so we're just trying to appreciate, you know, the time that we have at home, we try travel a lot, probably half the weekends, in a year typically. And so, to be able to slow down and see spring in Colorado, it's been a really special thing.

Alex Velasquez :1:11

Hmm. That is a good point. You know, my dad was he was on the road for 20 plus years. And he definitely echoed the same thing of like, you know, two weeks at home two weeks on the road, home road, home road. And I've heard from a couple of different people and sources on other shows online that like this has been the longest stretch they've spent with their spouses ever since getting married. Like I've heard a few people say that and that was kind of weird to me. I'm, you know, I'm not married or anything, but have you guys because you guys are the rare case of artists that are a couple but you're also doing the same in the same exact line of work, doing shows and so your perspective might be different, but so my dad, he was the artist, my mom You know, she would travel to some shows when she had the time off. But it was usually a separate kind of thing. So being on the road together is different.

Chris Wheeler :2:08

Yeah, yeah, I think we've spent a lot of time together before this as well, like we were actually in the restaurant business together. And I think that pretty much destroys like 9 out of 10 couples, they say. And we also lived overseas together for about five years. That's another thing. I think that was just destroyed almost every couple weeks. We knew over there.

Nha Vuu :2:28

Yeah, that's a relationship killer.

Chris Wheeler :2:30

And now we're artists together. So I think we've, you know, we've done all the tests for our relationship at this point. We've suffered through all the stress

Alex Velasquez :2:38

and all that the Vegas odds are definitely in your favor than if you've gone through all those.

Chris Wheeler :2:42

Yeah, we have to have some kind of a strong bond for sure. And we like to work with each other, you know, when we argue and stuff but we, we work well together.

Nha Vuu :2:51

Yeah, we do enjoy each other's company.

Alex Velasquez :2:53

So that's actually a good transition. Why don't we do backgrounds and how you guys started? You know, you can start - whoever wants to take the first whack at it.

Chris Wheeler :3:03

You want to go first?

Nha Vuu :3:04

Sure. Well, I guess we'll talk about our background for art.

Alex Velasquez :3:11

So yeah, first, I guess we'll say, medium. And then when you first started.

Nha Vuu :3:15

okay, well, in 1999, we actually both decided to move to Tainan, Taiwan. And Chris introduced me to my first painting teacher. And she taught me in the traditional art form of ink and brush. And I studied quite intensively with her for about five years. And then also had the opportunity to study under another teacher who taught me more of a contemporary style of income brush that people don't typically see here in the United States. And so I was studying art. And we realized that eventually when we would come back to the States, somebody would need to be able to mount my paintings. And so at that time, Chris volunteered And apprenticed under master Wang in Taiwan. And he taught Chris how to do the traditional art of stretching and mounting antique showed you screens and scrolls. And so he mounted my paintings, which was at that time, the only way that my pieces can be stretched and displayed. And that's how he actually learned his art form is because the foundation of how these antique Shoji screens and scrolls are stretched is how Chris actually stretches his paper to do his collage work.

Alex Velasquez :4:29

Wow. Okay, so really specialized technique. Right, like, and you said that you learned in Taiwan. So you learn from people that have been doing it for a long time?

Nha Vuu :4:39

Yes. So Taiwan and Taiwan, the city that we lived in was the haven for artists that fled China when Mao took over. And so the Nationalist Party which is opposition party, fled to Taiwan and took some of the most prestigious artists to Taiwan and also a huge art collection. So there's an amazing art collection in the Imperial Museum in Taipei, that houses some really precious artifacts that they were able to save from China. And so a lot of the teachers ended up in Tainan and Tainan is known as the cultural center of Taiwan. And so we had access to some of the world's best teachers when it came to calligraphy ink and brush, the craft of mounting scrolls sculptors so we got immersed in the art community there. And it was just extremely vibrant and just such a treat for us to be able to be a part of that community. And so we did that for five years. We did art shows there, you know, we art was such a big part of our life when we were living there.

Alex Velasquez :5:51

Well, what are the what were the art shows like there because my only concept of art shows is in the States on the sidewalk on the asphalt white tent. Is it a same similar setup? Or is it much more integrated in the culture?

Nha Vuu :6:06

They the art shows that we participated in were more in I guess there were community buildings or indoor. They were indoors. We didn't see any outdoor art.

Chris Wheeler :6:19

I mean, it'd be a night market or something.

Nha Vuu :6:21

Yeah. So it'd be like a night, night market or a flea and craft market. And those were more

Alex Velasquez :6:27

general market. Just large. A lot of people. Yeah.

Nha Vuu :6:30

Like, ours would be like, thrown in there. Right. But it wasn't a dedicated like art market.

Alex Velasquez :6:36

Okay, gotcha. So, Chris, and you guys, were there. So you studied? Did you kind of like plot all of this out and how to join forces and, you know, use both of your skills in producing work or was it just sort of serendipitous how it kind of worked out?

Chris Wheeler :6:54

I think it was more serendipitous. I would say absolutely. I did. definitely wasn't thinking ahead. Just wanted to scroll her work at that time. Okay, I knew when we got back, there'd be no one who could do that.

Alex Velasquez :7:05

So describe that actually - scrolling work, because I'm not super familiar with that process. But explain why it's like so rare.

Chris Wheeler :7:13

It's a way of layering paper on top of paper. And at certain points in the process, the paper is soaking wet. So you can completely wipe out the ink and watercolor ink painting very quickly. So it's a whole process and a way of doing it. They've been doing it for thousands of years in China. This is not new. Right, right. Yeah. So I took that and brought it back and started doing my own collage, okay with it.

Nha Vuu :7:39

And we actually did antique restoration for a couple of galleries when we were living in Seattle. So when we came back from Taiwan, we moved back to Seattle, which is kind of where we met and where my family is from. And so we were sought out because it's not very often that you find somebody who can restore antique Shoji screens and scrolls but also have a painter in the house who can also touch up the artwork. So that was kind of in a way, how we started our art business is doing antique restoration. And then John Fairman, the guy who really took us under his wing and gave us a lot of work to do, he started giving us these blank screens, and I started painting on them. And he sold him out of his gallery for us. Well, and, and that was a really, I think, pivotal moment in time where we could see it kind of forming as a business, you know, kind of doing a little bit of restoration, but also coming up with a style of, you know, painting that I think is signature to mine. And so that was a really important point in developing kind of where I wanted to go with ink and brush.

Alex Velasquez :8:49

Yeah, that's I think that's a very good point that it's rarely rarely a pure play as an artist. I mean, you could be you know, you could be a trustafarian and doing the show circuit for fun, right? Because you have you're not really worried about selling the work. But if you have to make a living from it it's rarely just you know, I'm just going to paint or I'm just going to sculpt it's, I have something on the side, right. And so it sounds like maybe the restoration work kind of helped you guys. There's pay the bills while you could just, you know, be a little freer in your artwork and freer and like not having to, like this pain is gonna pay for rent. And I think that's a it's a good thing to have.

Nha Vuu :9:32

Yeah, it's been interesting because both of our parents are not art parents. We didn't come from art families. But I think both of us have always been very artistically inclined, ever since we were young. It was just something that we were drawn to. I'm drawn to the visual arts and then Chris is more drawn to, you know, literature. And so when we came back, it was just kind of we were just kind of figuring out as we went along and I think that not going to art school was in a way beneficial to us because we didn't have all these other artists ideas and, you know, images floating around our heads. And so the artwork that we create, I feel like is kind of our purest form of expression and not really borrowed from anybody else or any other other genre.

Alex Velasquez :10:25

Interesting. So my, my dad was a he was self taught and so I he's always been on the other side of like, Man, I wish I would have gotten into an art school just for the sake of getting the you know, the fundamentals and contacts. But I kind of agree with you guys more like you may not have developed your own style as well if you know you start from here's all these frameworks, here's all these specific ways you do something it might be harder to break out of. I don't know but it sounds like that's could be a you guys might

Chris Wheeler :10:57

agree it's easy to break out of those things when you don't know about about any of them. were completely ignorant. A lot of those, but it's helped her I think it helps out a lot. I think that's one reason we're semi successful at it. It's our it's just original. I know that that helps sell it a lot. Mm hmm. Definitely.

Alex Velasquez :11:14

Yeah. It's, it's funny. It's one of my favorite books, Finite and Infinite Games, the [author James Carse] lays out that, you know, if you're like a finite player, if you follow the rules you play within the boundaries. But if you're an infinite player or an artist, you play with the boundaries, you know, you move them you change them and right, that's just opens up so much on the horizon. And, you know, you're not just looking at a square canvas. It's what is through what is past the canvas. What's, how am I gonna connect with through the canvas? Who's gonna buy it? Who, who am I gonna make friends with along the way? I think that's this whole other layer of art shows that unfortunately, right now, you know, we don't have a lot of exposure to what do you guys think about the show circuit in 2020 going forward And how has it been in the last 10 years?

Chris Wheeler :12:06

Well, we started at the beginning of the recession, about 2008. I think it was or 2007. So we timed that perfectly, absolutely perfect. And then it gradually got better. Until the past three years, we've got pretty good. So I think we pretty much had like our best time up until February of this year, in our worst time, from March of this year, and forward. Yeah. So we were just getting to a point where it was getting comfortable to be nice for us at least.

Nha Vuu :12:35

it's fine. It's really funny, because now we can talk in retrospect, you know, what is it 13 whatever, years later, that we always thought that it was it was hard to start during the recession. But then we realized later that if you started at the top, you know, then there's only down to go right but since we started the bottom It was only going to get better for us. So

Alex Velasquez :13:03

yeah, start from the bottom now we're here. Now we gotta climb back up. Yeah, I, I think that is a common mental trap perhaps that more fortunes are built in downtimes than an up times because in the up times, it's competitive. Everyone has capital everyone's you know, you've got you can be lazy or sloppy and you can get you can get let it slide you can get through, but when times are tough, like you got to be sharp on your game, you can have any holes in your business process or, or you know, you just frankly don't have a lot of room to handle, you know, events that are outside of your control. So it seems like right now is like a time where most of us are starting to have to go through that and learn that lesson. Me as me especially and I before, before now, you know, I could have moved... moved faster on projects, designs, you know, making everything tip top shape, but, you know, you just let it drag and then you find yourself in situation like we are now and it's like, oh, I should have I should have done more sooner.

Nha Vuu :14:16

I mean, I in a sense, I feel like, you know, it was, I was grateful to go through, you know, what we did at the very beginning, because that was a time where we really honed in our skills, you know, and figured out a lot of things that, you know, we didn't have the luxury to waste time on, you know, back then. And then pretty much a year later, our daughter was born so that really kind of kicked it up a notch. Yeah,

Alex Velasquez :14:41

that is, right. That's a that's another full time job right there. Yeah. So when you're, when did you modify your show schedule at all after your daughter's born or was it sort of just on the road because I was one of those art show kids where, you know, as I was on the road with my dad,

Chris Wheeler :14:58

she's been on the road a light so Since we started we do about 25 shows a year. And we actually we haven't slowed down at all. Yeah, the whole time. Cool. So

Nha Vuu :15:06

we actually did more when she was born. And that was when we decided to leave Seattle. Seattle art show, you know, season is just in the summertime. And we really had to figure out how to work year round. So that was when you know, we moved in and moved to Austin, Texas for a couple of years and just kind of bounced around until we found Fort Collins.

Alex Velasquez :15:27

Okay. Austin, what year was that? Because Austin now people are different than

Nha Vuu :15:31

It was 2010

Chris Wheeler :15:32

Yeah. 2010 Okay. It was right when the recession was happening sure in Texas was the only spot where we could do show stuff. Okay, still pretty good.

Alex Velasquez :15:41

Yeah, I've heard Texas is such a strange market. If you're not really in the art show scene. I'm always surprised that people don't realize that Texas is like one of the best markets in the nation if not in the world for certain you know, certain work

Nha Vuu :15:59

yeah. mean their disposable income there because of cost of living, everything is quite low. And then their houses are extremely large, right? That Texas has been really, really good to us. I feel like we made a really good move making that transition from Seattle to Texas so that we can figure things out, you know, and in Texas has really been good to us. So, and it was a great experience learning about the south, you know, and living there and kind of absorbing a completely different culture. It was really fun.

Alex Velasquez :16:33

Yeah, I think, Chris, I think on your site I saw in the southwest collection. One of your pieces that's it has a very typical like Southwestern, like beam roof, like solid log beam roof, and you just see those circle like circle the ends of it protruding from the front of the facade. And that just brought in Albuquerque. It's like all of that is an Old Town and you know, you nailed that look of it just felt like oh, so Southwest, you know,

Chris Wheeler :17:00

Yeah, we've been traveling through there for many years by now. It's been like 10 years. So yeah, I've always found that sort of architecture and the Adobe, you know, I love that kind of stuff.

Alex Velasquez :17:11

And Nha do you have a background in architecture as well? We'd spend a little time doing drafting and

Nha Vuu :17:16

yeah, I'm, I've been drafting ever since I was really young, I wanted to be an architect. And so that was kind of what I really focused on even when I was in high school. And I, I apprenticed under an architect in Seattle, for a couple of years before I realized that architecture is not as much fun as I thought it was going to me.

Alex Velasquez :17:36

It's Yes, more engineering than than the creative aspect, right?

Nha Vuu :17:43

Well, I mean, you think art is a starving profession. Architects don't have it much easier,

Alex Velasquez :17:48

right? It's you gotta you gotta join forces with you know, that power crew where you get it starts sounding like a law firm, right? It's three names and they just be right at the top. And if you're not one of those big games, it's tough. Impossible. Yeah. Well, that's cool because in your work, the mid century modern theme, you know, it's definitely present some of the pieces which I love. I, I've always loved like that. Scottsdale, Arizona, like the places that were cheap that were not in California, but they were still built mid century. That's always been like a weird like Desert Oasis Vibe. And we always did the Scottsdale arts festival every year. So just driving out there I got a taste of that when I was a kid. And that's probably why I'm drawn to it now.

Nha Vuu :18:32

Yeah, we love desert modern that look. You know, it has a beautiful, austere color palette and very simple clean lines. And basically, I think the reason why we love mid century architecture is because it goes to the heart of the structure. It's, you know, almost primitive in form in some ways. And it's, you know, just very clean and concise. no fluff,

Alex Velasquez :18:57

Yeah, the architecture here in Fort Collins. is all over the place, right? It's there's the old cottages. The newer stuff is like that Telluride, modern. That's kind

Chris Wheeler :19:09

of where it's taken over.

Alex Velasquez :19:11

Yeah. Yeah. And it's just such a weird, I have a weird time processing style and design. Because today is so much different than back in the 60s 70s 80s. And all these houses were built. And you know, I'm not really sure how that relates to art, creativity, but just the place that you're at really influences your frame of mind. And since you guys have had the experience of being in different cities, you know, access different art markets. How's your style changed as you've kind of changed locations.

Chris Wheeler :19:47

I don't think your style has changed at all.

Nha Vuu :19:50

You know, for me, growing up in Seattle was so important in the way that my aesthetics and kind of The look of my pieces is very defining, I think that where you grow up defines in a huge sense of who you are. My color palette just tends to lean a little bit on the dark and moody side. And I just think I grew up under a lot of clouds. So, you know, my pieces just, you know, have that kind of sense to it. And so even though I've lived in the south, and, you know, all around the country, I think I've taken that sensibility with me. And also, Seattle is a very kind of hip and modern city. I think there's a terminology for the modern architecture that they have there. I think it's called Northwest modern, where it's a little bit woodsy, but also very clean and simple lines to their buildings. A lot of their buildings are either dark wood or painted, you know, black or gray as well. And so, I think no matter where we live, that kind of sensibility I take with me.

Chris Wheeler :20:58

Yeah, I feel like my pretty much stayed the same to only that I just, I think I add new colors in different cities possibly a certain way it might change. Like I definitely got brighter when I was in the south a little darker when I was up in Seattle.

Nha Vuu :21:12

But you definitely have an East Coast sensibility to yours.

Chris Wheeler :21:14

Yes, I think so. Yeah. So that's the only way I could see it really changing, you know, living in a city. We're just always trying to do new work, I think so it doesn't matter where you are. Really? Yeah.

Nha Vuu :21:26

Well, I think what's fascinating is no matter where we travel to, the people from our original region, tend to find us and buy our art. So we ship a lot of pieces to the northeast, and I ship a lot of pieces also to the northwest. So no matter even if we're in like Arizona, the people from Washington or Oregon will find this and it's just really funny how that works out.

Alex Velasquez :21:49

That's cool. And so you guys, you have separate galleries, separate websites, or do you kind of just combine [them]?

Nha Vuu :21:57

Well, at the moment our websites are separate but we've done a huge overhaul, and we are set to launch our new combined website probably in the next couple of weeks. Very cool.

Alex Velasquez :22:10

Is it gonna be? Is it Pergamena?

Chris Wheeler :22:14

Pergamena, yeah it means parchment

Alex Velasquez :22:17

So is that going to be the kind of the branding of it and you can kind of?

Chris Wheeler :22:21

Yeah, cool. Pretty much the paper house.

Nha Vuu :22:24

Yeah. So yeah, Pergamena is, and pergamēnḗ is Latin for paper, okay. And so that's kind of our, I would say, our house brand. If you go and type in, you know, nhavuu.com it'll still point you to Pergamenafineart.com So I'm still keeping my domain name. Cool. But our main domain is going to be under Pergamenafineart.com.

Alex Velasquez :22:46

I'll have all the links in the description and stuff like that, that way people can can find it and that's exciting. You know, retooling the website. Now especially is a good good good idea and That's, you know, seems like that's how a lot of the transactions are gonna have to happen, at least in the short term couple months.

Chris Wheeler :23:08

We've been planning it for a while now, like I remember, basically, we set up Scottsdale, and then we broke it down, like within an hour because they cancelled it.

Alex Velasquez :23:17

So you guys actually drove out

Chris Wheeler :23:18

on the way driving home...yeah, we totally just we set everything up, of course, right. And then like, 20 minutes later, break down, everyone go home. But I just remember driving back to my parents place who live outside of Phoenix. And we were the first thing we're talking about was we got to get a new website. We got to get online. Like we knew. I think we knew right away. It's a whole new world. Yeah, it's gonna be a whole different future for us now.

Nha Vuu :23:42

Well, like I say, we've been so busy for over 10 years, and we've been wanting to do this. That's true. And why not a better time than now?

Alex Velasquez :23:52

Yeah, I mean, now it's adapt or die. And it's, it's actually I would keep thinking about Scottsdale. So do you guys...did you drive out and they were still on the fence? Right? Because they weren't they had like, Hey, this is gonna. We're not sure yet, right?

Chris Wheeler :24:07

Oh, yeah, we set up. They let us set up...

Nha Vuu :24:09

Not just a regular booth but a pretty large 10 by 20 booth. Oh yeah.

Chris Wheeler :24:13

And when I went for it, I was like,

Nha Vuu :24:15

we had an island. We had art. It was beautiful.

Alex Velasquez :24:18

Yeah. Do you have any pictures of it? We'll have to put that in.

Chris Wheeler :24:23

I think I was too mad at that point. I was just exhausted. It was it wasn't that hot for Scottsdale, but it was pretty hot. Well, we had to set up for a couple hours. You know how it is. So yeah,

Nha Vuu :24:32

and this is a one time we couldn't pull up to our booth. So we had to dolly about a block away.

Alex Velasquez :24:38

I've done that with the furniture before with my dad. It's fine. Yeah. Did they what did they do with the booth fee?

Chris Wheeler :24:44

They returned it.

Nha Vuu :24:45

They gave it they gave us back our booth fee for that particular show.

Chris Wheeler :24:48

We haven't had any trouble with any shows yet that I know of. Right?

Nha Vuu :24:51

No, not yet.

Chris Wheeler :24:52

Yeah. With the booth fee thing.

Alex Velasquez :24:54

And then obviously all the rest of the shows after that you had planned or just they're all gone.

Nha Vuu :24:59

Well, we were at La Quinta fortunately we

Chris Wheeler :25:01

luckily we were in Palm Springs already. Okay, well, some of our friends are driven down from Florida, Milwaukee like 16 hours just to like get there and then set up and then have to break down and drive home. That's so brutal.

Nha Vuu :25:14

It was devastating. I mean, not only just to be there, and just to have the rug pulled out from under you, I mean that that feeling that we had when we found out Yeah,

Chris Wheeler :25:26

I think we both so we both felt like this. There was no more shows rest of year. I really felt like that. Yeah, I don't know how but I just knew this wasn't gonna happen.

Nha Vuu :25:33

It's pretty devastating.

Alex Velasquez :25:35

And that's Yeah, I mean, that's like a zero. It's like, Hey, here's a zero show for you. And yeah, we're not you know, like, That's such a hard mental something to process when you're there. I know a zero show on any normal weekend's tough to deal with but zero without even getting the chance at selling something after all the work of setting up and driving.

Nha Vuu :25:58

I mean, they really try The organizers, Whitney, you know, at Scottsdale, they really, really tried hard to make the show happen.

Chris Wheeler :26:07

Yeah, I don't blame them at all or anything.

Nha Vuu :26:09

But the moment that spring training canceled, yes, literally an hour into setup. So I was getting our last load and I was right next to the museum. And they came out and they looked at us. And I just knew I just knew because it was all of them. The entire crew came out and you know, just started talking and then I had to run over to where Chris was and a bunch of other artists were there and I just told them you guys just stop because it's over. That's it.

Alex Velasquez :26:39

Wow. Yeah. What uh, what in a year this has been Yeah, I like you said we can't really blame the show because just the whole year feels like it's really been dominoes, except you don't know what's behind the domino that you're staring at where, you know, the domino here just fell but these are still up. And some are, it's impossible to navigate right now.

Nha Vuu :27:04

It's an emotional rollercoaster I'd have to Yeah. You know, some days, you know, we, we make a big sale, we sell a large painting and we feel and we're feeling like it's going to be okay. And then a couple weeks later, you know, and the news is getting bad and the cases are going up. We're like, Oh my gosh, you know, when is this going to end? I mean, there is no set like...

Chris Wheeler :27:26

...you were talking about zero. We were I was just thinking, like, we had two shows are actually pretty good. Our Palm Springs, we do pretty well, with my mid century mod stuff. So and then you're thinking it's 23 zeros like after that. Right? There's like, okay, yes, this is just

Nha Vuu :27:41

we had an incredible lineup of shows this year, too.

Chris Wheeler :27:44

Yeah, you know, we do 25 shows

Nha Vuu :27:46

that into the top 25 shows Well, this year, I mean,

Alex Velasquez :27:52

so it was gonna be a stellar year and

Chris Wheeler :27:54

now you're hoping Yeah. That's like the nature of the business. Oh, man.

Alex Velasquez :27:59

I Yeah, I can't fathom having that all planned out and just and not having a backup plan. That's the thing. I think you guys are pretty smart about you had some other irons in fire you have, you know, you have the gallery have the website, it's sort of you were the one of the more flexible you know duos out there. I think there's some people scrambling and what I've heard so far is that you know, your list is now worth its weight in gold. How is your list been? And how long have you had it? Because I know some artists change or they collect here and there or some names they get from only from sales and then you that ends up being like your 10 year 20 year customer, right.

Chris Wheeler :28:41

She's been really good about it. So let you answer that. But she's been collecting names for over a decade. So I don't really know what our list is by now. And that's good. Luckily, she's been very aggressive about doing that. Yeah, Mm hmm. Yeah.

Nha Vuu :28:55

I mean, definitely, I mean, I would say your list is your gold and also Taking notes about each purchase and then entering them into your list so that when they email you, you're like, Oh, hey, you know, how is that piece that you previously purchased in? 2015? You know, I think when I grew up in the restaurant business, it really helps me learn to remember things about people. So just making it personal, like, oh, how are your kids doing? Or, you know, you know, how is how is Texas you know, that. I feel like if I ever got that kind of personal attention, it just makes it easier to to support somebody or buy from somebody or keep that person in mind. So, I would have to say, we've been very fortunate that the past four months, a lot of our purchases have been from customers that we've known for, I mean, you name it goes back 10 years, you know, or plus, but, I mean, it's it's been amazing that people buy multiple pieces from us. And that was what The reason why we combined our websites is because our customers if they buy from Chris they will eventually buy for me and vice versa so we do play off our lists from each other very well

Alex Velasquez :30:11

yeah that's you know that's that's so I'm so glad to have that because that seems like that's the lifeblood here going out from here going forward it's that's really what people are gonna try and cultivate and you know my dad was a is a genius at remembering people their face at the show what they talked about what they ordered you know he did a lot of the deliveries because it's furniture so he would go there house deliver set it up chat sometimes have dinner and that it seems like that connection is just that's what you get at an art show that's as a patron that's why you would go to an art show it's you know, you might need a you might need something here or there for your for your home your you know spot it's like I just need to pick something up. But what you get is no I'm getting to know this person I get their story I get to hang out with them. You know you can you can shoot the shit with an artist and burn up all their time during the day. I mean, if you want as a as a customer, but that's not available for the foreseeable future. I'm curious how. And it's really hard to convey that over the internet. We were talking earlier about the online auctions that some of the shows are decided to put up an auction instead of the show. And, you know, I think that's definitely it's a it's a benefit for the artists because at least it's something right. But it's hard to do, because we all know that all the sales, all the interactions, the connections, that's face to face, that's that's a handshake that's getting to know somebody, right?

Nha Vuu :31:46

Yeah, I just feel like that interaction that we're used to having at art shows we just cannot count on, at least for the foreseeable future. And so we just have to get used to the fact That we have to figure out other avenues of selling, like you said on those online actions or virtual shows. just figuring out a way to cultivate new followers, for us has been really, really challenging. But I think it's doable. There's a lot of people that do do it. You just have to put in the time and the legwork to figure it out. And that's kind of where we're at in that process. And I know we can do it. It Like I said, it just takes an immense amount of effort. And you just don't know what kind of payoff or outcome, you know, it's going to have but you just have to have faith that it's going to work because at this point, there are no other options.

Alex Velasquez :32:44

Yeah. Yeah. How's that? How's that affecting your work? Because if you're lucky enough, where you're selling some work, you have to keep making it right. But trying to make make to do your creative work in such a crazy environment a it's either A) nice respite? And you can really dive into it more. And it's a nice way to compartmentalize or B) you just, you know, it's just not happening. You know, the Muses aren't there today, because of all this stuff is happening out outside. Have you guys been able to keep getting in the flow of things and keep producing?

Chris Wheeler :33:29

I haven't No, not really been. I do a little bit here and there, but not I used to wake up at 05:30 and work until six every day in the studio that was seven days a week always like, and now I'm doing a couple hours a day, you know, maybe in the morning and then we have our daughter at home. And we're just trying to figure out how to do like I said the online business and stuff like that. We're working on our property in our studio and trying to fix that up a little bit when we can. So not as much I mean, I don't think you've been working as much All right,

Nha Vuu :34:00

no. I mean, the work that we have been doing fortunately, recently has been all commissioned. Well, it's

Chris Wheeler :34:05

very specific in the circle.

Nha Vuu :34:07

Yeah. So our usual old clients come back and they want a different piece. And so Chris and I have done quite a bit of commission work in the past couple of months. And that is nice, because it gets us it kind of forces you to get back into the studio. And so we're both working on a couple of commissions right now. But, you know,

Chris Wheeler :34:27

it's definitely very distracting, though. Yeah,

Nha Vuu :34:29

it is. I mean, our daughter has not been to school since February. And so just making sure that she's happy, has been a priority for us. And also, this has been a great time for us to finish. You know, getting our studio together. This is time that we've never had before. And so we are really, it's not like we've slowed down in any way. It's just we've kind of shifted our attention to other things that we know we won't be able to get to if the show season starts back up. But we're still we're still working. Just you know, Different than we used to, instead of scrambling and getting all of our artwork done, you know, before a show and spending a whole day packing. Right now we're just kind of focusing on other things right now and still working when we when we can.

Alex Velasquez :35:14

Yeah, the family balance has always been hard for artists. For the very, very few that had kids, I think. Yeah, that's something I've noticed. Like I I started going to shows when I was a baby, like, it was my dad, literally my mom, you know, she was helping out and they would set up a crib in the back of the booth. Yes. And I'd be back there and so I don't really remember all the the younger years but when I was a, you know, a young kid, teenager, young adult, I mean, I've kind of gone through the whole thing taking that lifestyle for granted. And I never really thought about hey, this is this is like really hard for my parents because you know, A) they have to try and make a living on the road. And so what do you what's your experience been with? Family life in the art scene?

Chris Wheeler :36:04

Well, I want to say honestly, it hasn't been as bad as you might think it is traveling with a child under six is pretty easy, actually. Because you're just going to cities all the time and parks and Disney World and I mean, they're having the time of their lives. Yeah, it only gets complicated when they get into school. I think that's when it's hard for us because now we're flying back and forth. We can't stay as long as we used to to Seattle and two other shows. Yeah, so we'll fly to Texas and maybe our van their newest show, fly back, you know, get her daughter in school. She's looking fly back and forth, back.

Nha Vuu :36:39

And logistics. It's got more complicated as she

Chris Wheeler :36:41

gets older, and I'm assuming that's it's gonna get harder as well.

Nha Vuu :36:45

Yeah. So typically, Chris will take off a couple of days before the show with the van.

Chris Wheeler :36:49

Yeah, I'm the truck driver.

Nha Vuu :36:50

Driver. He's good at that. And then I will fly in with our daughter pretty much either the morning of the show or the night before and then Either sometimes we drive home together, or we'll leave the van down there and we'll fly home together on Monday morning. And so it's we've racked up a lot of airline miles in the past couple of years, just for school just to get her back just

Alex Velasquez :37:16

to get it back then are you are you eager to redeem those now? Are you gonna wait a couple years? Yeah, that's that's one industry that. It's like, Hey, I had kind of configured part of my lifestyle around flying from Fort Collins or Denver to Albuquerque, when I'm not kind of working full time in the shop. And now it's like, well, now it's back to the eight hour drive. Yeah, if you know. So, yeah, I can imagine try it. You can't plan at this point in time where long term planning is now like, that's an ancient practice. Because you just we don't know what's going to happen. But I, you mentioned one thing, you know, having fun as a kid and going out and visiting cities. I think, to the extent that I'm a good human being, I think it's because I was exposed to so many different people, different things really early on. And that's one thing that I would never trade for the world. And I realized, like, it's such a valuable trait, especially for a young person, even to travel in your own country. And just meet people. That's, that's huge.

Chris Wheeler :38:27

we've really seen that in our daughter. She's very open minded. It's very easy for her to make friends cuz she's used to just showing up at art show and seeing some kids over that she's never met before and having to go say hi. So yeah, she's definitely she's very

Nha Vuu :38:40

grounded.

Chris Wheeler :38:41

Yeah, very grounded.

Nha Vuu :38:42

Good head on her shoulders just like you.

Chris Wheeler :38:44

It's all from traveling. She's seen a lot, right?

Nha Vuu :38:47

It was funny because when she was born, then we had to start taking her on the road. We thought we were being bad parents taking her out of the house all the time. But you know, as the years went along, and see her at every single Zoo out there and parks and, you know, I can't tell you how many times she's been to Disney World. Right? She grew up, you know, just having a great childhood and we were with her all the time. And like Chris said, she just saw so much, you know, as a child. And when she started school, you know, in kindergarten, we noticed that there was a difference in her. Just the way that she composed herself and the way that she handled herself. She was a different kid. And we can definitely say that that's attributed to, you know, the art show life. It's it's...you think it's hard, but when you actually go through it and see how it benefits your child, you're glad that it's happened. We would never change that.

Chris Wheeler :39:46

Yeah. Chris, no, it's ok, go ahead

Alex Velasquez :39:50

I was, I think my on the, on the occasions that I traveled with my dad. And my mom had to stay because at a certain point, my mom I split off from the art business. And just working like with my dad she had, she got a full time job. And it was a way after '08, especially as a way to stabilize things so that he could keep making furniture and she was way more stable. And so she wasn't able to do as many shows with us. But that was right when I was kind of a teenager, I was getting into those teen years 13 - 15 so I'm sure she was worried, like, Where's your dad taken you? What are you guys doing? And I have this memory from Milwaukee, when we had some good friends there. And I was like, 13 and it was after after setup, we were just going out and you know, partying really because it was my dad on our show friends when I was 13. So I was like tagging along. But I was not aware of Wisconsin's liquor laws where if you're with a legal guardian, you can go into a bar and drink at like, I don't know if there's an age. There's any age, it's like if the Guardian is there, you can drink. So I was 13 and we go to a bar And the bartender's like, Hey, kid, what do you want? Like, soda? And he's like, do you want a beer or something? I'm like, No. He's like, you know, that's the law here. Like is that that's your dad. It's, you know, it's fine as a kid as like, Wow, that's so weird. Like, I don't know if that's still the case, but

Nha Vuu :41:18

and there's some great bars in Milwaukee.

Alex Velasquez :41:19

Oh, yeah.

Chris Wheeler :41:21

No, I can't imagine. Yeah, the kids we actually our daughter has been to like a lot of the the bars.

Nha Vuu :41:27

We've we've taken it to like a couple of the same thing where

Chris Wheeler :41:30

all the artists will go out. And of course, we'll have our 10 year old daughter with us and

Alex Velasquez :41:33

Have you guys been to Balzac, have you been to that place?

Chris Wheeler :41:37

That sounds really familiar.

Alex Velasquez :41:38

We did. It was one of those, like, I have some memories from that place, too. And

Nha Vuu :41:42

this place that we went, I think the last one

Chris Wheeler :41:45

Yeah, actually did get that.

Alex Velasquez :41:47

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. And then there's that where they do the fish fry. A giant like fish fry or like a Friday thing. Are some

Nha Vuu :41:55

of the public market.

Alex Velasquez :41:57

That was an indoor place. Yeah, it was it Yeah,

Nha Vuu :42:00

that's one of our favorite places we usually stay in the hotel across the stree so we get lots of seafood.

Alex Velasquez :42:05

Yeah, that place was rowdy. I've only been there once but it was rowdy. It's one of those places where we were, uh, some friends Mark Winter and Beth [Bojarski] and my dad and a few other artists just from the show, but I just remember like, everybody knew everybody in that place and it just was chaos. But that's that was the stuff that was opened my eyes to like this how people have fun, you know, doing like making a living doing something but also having a shitload of fun. After on during the shows even. It's such a unique

Chris Wheeler :42:40

Yeah, it's definitely possible.

Alex Velasquez :42:41

Yeah. If it's possible, but it's like almost guaranteed, I would think

Chris Wheeler :42:45

Yeah, that's true!

Alex Velasquez :42:47

If you're in it for a few years, like you just you find a groove. You find your peeps.

Chris Wheeler :42:52

Yeah, I think so. For sure. Yeah.

Nha Vuu :42:53

I think that's definitely the allure of artists life that once you kind of get a taste of that and like you said you find your friends and where to go, It's it can be a lot of fun. And I think that's why a lot of artists who are not doing shows right now are struggling with all this because their community has been taken away. Their access to, you know, friends and their release is also gone because most of us that become artists were kind of gypsies at heart in a way and also were very free spirited. So being able to travel and you know, see your friends and just experience something different every weekend is is definitely something you can get addicted to.

Alex Velasquez :43:35

Yeah, the what's the saying? There's no...the two most addictive substances on Earth are like heroin and a steady paycheck. And they know the artists lifestyle does not have a steady paycheck. But what replaces it is the community, the sort of carny like, you know, roving band, it's like a distributed family right? There's there's just so many friends all across the country but because you see him in the same context every weekend - every other weekend. It's such a surreal you know, feels like your home is now spread out across the whole landscape.

Chris Wheeler :44:14

Yeah, I feel more at home on the road sometimes than I do at home. Yeah, definitely. I spent way more time on the road.

Alex Velasquez :44:20

I've definitely heard that from other artists. And that's interesting.

Chris Wheeler :44:23

It's strange. Yeah, driving across Kansas, right for the umpteenth time you think? Oh, my God, I actually feel more comfortable here than my house. At that point. Sometimes it's,

Alex Velasquez :44:33

yeah, your van kind of becomes your sanctuary. Yeah, you learn how to pack it, you learn where all the, you know, where the anchor points are, where you fit things where, you know, this thing always rattles off and to keep fixing that every time we do a trip. Yeah, it's all these little quirks, right. It's the idiosyncrasies of being on the road.

Nha Vuu :44:55

I think art show artists are also very unique. Read as well, when you talk to other people that are just regular everyday people that you know, like your neighbors, you know, or you know, other parents. Art show artists are really different from them. They're they're a quirky bunch and, and I love them for it. You know, I just I just can't find any other replacement to my art show friends in our current community it is not the same kind of people and you have to love them for their spirit, you know, and their excitement for art and life. That's that's kind of what I miss.

Alex Velasquez :45:38

Yeah, that's you kind of know an artist when you see one right?

Nha Vuu :45:43

from a mile away

Alex Velasquez :45:44

from mile away. And so what about the work? Because this is a question that I have for you guys. I and I've only started thinking about this since I've started the podcast and being off the show circuit. I'm used to To what I can build and make, and I'm used to what my dad does. So I kind of have like an internal assessment of quality in work. But um, because I took the artists or the art show lifestyle for granted for so many years, I don't really have a good gauge of like, if I go see someone studios either work like I have no reference. But there's obviously a bare minimum like has to be quality. And I know that you guys because you specialize so heavily early on in your careers and you have talents that are actually so rare that automatically like that sort of puts your your work in a certain category, right? Where the it's almost like there's a fundamentals to producing art and then the more subjective creative aspect of it. And so I have, I guess my question is, how do you guys value your own work compared to What you see on the circuit? And how do you know when someone's you know, it's like, hey, they're new, but they're really talented or they've been at it for a long time. And they just do the same thing over again. They don't really try new things. Where's your value at artwork? So that's something I've been struggling with.

Chris Wheeler :47:17

Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, I guess I would say what would you say now?

Nha Vuu :47:24

I've learned from going to museums and lots of art shows and just being around art for over a decade

Chris Wheeler :47:32

we definitely know what quality work looks like, that's for sure.

Nha Vuu :47:35

I feel like quality of artwork and what you like is very subjective. It's

Chris Wheeler :47:40

low quality is one thing and then like your eye what you like, that's what he's saying.

Nha Vuu :47:44

Yes, and I think I think there is no standard. I think that you like what you like, and and you have to be okay with that. Everybody sees value in different ways. And so you know what you like, but there's so many other people who have different tastes and might not agree with you. And so I just feel like you know, you just go with your instinct, and do the best that you can. And your eye will not trick you.

Chris Wheeler :48:12

Yeah, I would say experience, I guess would be the one we do have a lot of stuff to see a lot of art like you have your whole life to know what good and bad is.

Alex Velasquez :48:21

Yeah. And okay, so that's interesting. How would you recommend getting exposure to art because now that museums are probably closed for a while? It's hard, right? You have to know people that are collectors or you have to have somewhere in person to see it because it's such a different experience in person versus online. Right?

Chris Wheeler :48:44

I'm afraid you have to be in the business or grow up in the business like you did to really get that kind of experience. I'm looking You know, I'm thinking like 10 - 15 years surely looking at sculptures for say, or, or works on paper. And then you can just almost look at em right away, and just tell instantaneously they evaluate. Yeah,

Nha Vuu :49:02

I think that's the sad thing about losing art shows is that it was such a great institution in a sense of allowing people who didn't know, what they were looking at, or kind of an intro to art is go to an art show and see 200-300 different kinds of art. I think that was a great way for young kids to learn and look about and look at art. Now that it's kind of no longer exists. You know, the best they can do is just, I don't know...read books?

Chris Wheeler :49:34

Yeah, so you're gonna have to just look online and it's gonna be hard for someone just starting out. Yeah, that'd be really hard.

Nha Vuu :49:40

It's hard.

Alex Velasquez :49:41

So the piece so I guess I'll you know, publicly announced like the piece that I won in the Cherry Creek arts auction is one of yours now.

Nha Vuu :49:50

Yay!

Alex Velasquez :49:50

And it was when I knew when I saw it, that I was already It was like the decision in my mind. As soon as I saw it, it was like done almost. Because I met you guys at the Lakefront Arts Festival last summer.

Nha Vuu :50:07

Yes.

Alex Velasquez :50:07

And, you know, I was just walking down the booths and it's like, hey, Fort Collins, you know, wow. So it's small world introduce myself, you know, we kind of met up and and I really liked you guys work and now actually, you were on the you were the poster right at the poster for the artist, right featured artists for that year. And so it just my brain's like, Oh, you know, connect to the dots. Here we are. And,

Nha Vuu :50:31

and your mom has one of the pieces.

Alex Velasquez :50:33

So my mom started working from home last summer. Yeah. And she, you know, re- did her office and it was totally serendipitous, I guess, because she set it all up and she's like, all right, I need some artwork. And I remember mentioning you guys to my parents and as I hey, they're in Fort Collins. I'm gonna try and meet up with them at some point. And so then I think my mom kind of, you know, saw your websites and checked it out and...

Nha Vuu :50:59

I met your mom, though, did she was she in Milwaukee?

Alex Velasquez :51:02

She was in Cherry Creek.

Nha Vuu :51:04

Okay, that's when she came up.

Alex Velasquez :51:05

Right, right. Yes. And so I think that's the connection of, I've seen your work in person. It might have been a year ago, it might have been eight months ago. But I saw it. And then when I saw it on the auction, it's almost like, that's, that's what made the, you know, aside from like, the personal connection, it was just seeing it person, and then getting the story of like, how intensive your guys' work is, because you make the paper, you cut it, I mean, and you could probably talk about the whole process if you want or at least give, give the overview just so that people know.

Nha Vuu :51:43

So, back in the day, you know, our we made the paper out of like mulberry pulp. And then once our daughter was born, and then we had to have a family owned paper store that we used to live around the corner from do it for us in Taiwan. And so this whole process of ordering the paper and to when it arrives actually takes about six months. And when it does arrive what was a rectangular boxes now like this mashed up box because it's made such a long journey. But our paper is actually traditionally made from mulberry cotton fibers that were kind of processed down or blended down. And then if you look at the paper in person close up, there's also wood chips and straw also pressed into it to give it almost like a cloud like or woodsy feel and the direct translation from Mandarin is 'cloudy dragon paper'` that's actually the name of the paper and it gives kind of the negative space, a lot of texture and tactile quality to it.

Alex Velasquez :52:52

Yeah, I like that. The depth to it. And I think in one of the descriptions and on your site. I found, "reaching across the void". I thought that was such a good way to describe the feeling it's like when you and this probably goes back to like, Chris, when you're saying when you see something you kind of know, right? It's like you're I can show you can trust your eye. And it's it is like you guys word has so much depth to it that you just, you get that impression of like, I'm looking at something, but I know there's something past it. And that's like, I love that just, there's a void. And if you can bridge that with your first your eye, then your imagination. You really it's like, oh, yeah, this is it's an emotional thing. You know, it's not just a transaction. I think that's what's hard to communicate to people that don't collect or don't buy work.

Nha Vuu :53:43

Yeah, and I think that that's something that is found in both of our work is kind of the emphasis on negative space and allowing the viewer to interpret the negative space on their own. That gives the piece you know, more meaning and more interpretation because you're not... spoon feeding the audience all the details, you're not kind of minimizing their intelligence in a way. So I think that, you know, emphasizing kind of the negative space and the void has always been an important component in both of our work allowing the peace to breathe in a sentence.

Alex Velasquez :54:19

I like that.

Nha Vuu :54:23

And then you were talking about, you know, as a collector, I think that what is really unique about art and the audience that it attracts, is that, in a way, the artwork is kind of a window to the artis's soul, and the people that are attracted to it. In a sense, you have some sort of commonality in how you live live your life or how you see your life. And so usually we find that we have a lot in common with our collectors because the artwork says so much about the person who's making it as well as the person who's acquiring or whoever, or the person who likes it. And so I think that that is very unique to art alone is that is that feeling.

Alex Velasquez :55:13

Yeah, that's truly you can describe it as much as you want, but until you experience it, right. It's one of those things you just don't know it. You either have it or you don't and in some ways

Nha Vuu :55:26

you either like it or you don't like it don't

Alex Velasquez :55:28

move on, you know, keep walking to the next booth. There was what was I gonna say that some something reminded me of, like creativity. And sometimes I think I've heard artists say like, my work is not a choice. Like I have to do this though as a go crazy, right? It's almost like

Nha Vuu :55:51

an outlet

Alex Velasquez :55:52

the energy has to go somewhere, right? You're either going to bottle it up, burn it off somewhere unproductively or, you know, if you're lucky. Find a channel and so that's the I think that's the part about connecting with people is like they can see that in your work. It's like, like you said, this little piece of their soul is like, it just definitely there. It's there's something about it right. And you know, you know it when you see it.

Chris Wheeler :56:16

Mm hmm. I think I think it's their passion like you can see that because I think they could spend their time being a stockbroker or a doctor or anything like, I just think they would focus 12 hours a day on it, because they're just those kind of people, artists. So I just think it's like this. I don't know, it's hard to explain, but you just really want to be in your studio working. I don't know, maybe you feel like you're doing something good.

Nha Vuu :56:39

I think I think we've always probably wanted to be artists, but just didn't know how to get there. And once we started doing it, we felt like, we found something. And that's why we can work, you know, 20 hours a day and not feel like we were working. We just enjoy doing it. So much. So You know, we probably always wanted to be artists and just didn't know it.

Alex Velasquez :57:02

Right? Do you guys work together at the same time? Or do you kind of if one person's in the studio, do you kind of

Chris Wheeler :57:07

work at the same time? We're on separate sides of the studio. Okay, so

Alex Velasquez :57:12

you kind of peek over be like either Chris is beating me, I gotta catch up or not. Right? I think

Chris Wheeler :57:17

so. Like, we've been doing it for so long. Now we just...

Nha Vuu :57:20

We get into our zone. Yeah, our studio. For all of you listening viewers, is about like 25 feet wide and 50 feet long would you say is about 50 feet or so.

Chris Wheeler :57:32

So there's enough space in between us?

Nha Vuu :57:34

Yes. There's plenty of room.

Alex Velasquez :57:37

Hey, that's, that sounds like the perfect setup. I think, you know, when you're working with a spouse or significant other and you've got the space and you've got, you know, just like "ah", you can just kind of settle in and that's, that's really when you start probably doing your best work. I think the early years for artists is are the hardest when you're like, just trying to figure out how the heck do I do this? How the heck do I make this happen. And it's almost like that's the, you know, that's what filters out to people that don't make it for one reason or another. But it's, it's wonderful to see that you guys have made it through all of the challenges in a normal world and then now adapting to this new frontier, you know, the unknown. Well, and that's supposedly artists are the ones that confront the unknown, and they wrestle with it, and they, you know, channel it, and they make work out of it. And so who knows, maybe this is going to be one of the best times for for artists because they're forced to think differently.

Chris Wheeler :58:41

Yeah, I told Nha when this first started to the pandemic, I think I told you, I remember, remember, remember this, I said that we've been training for this, like our whole lives, you know? It's like, yeah, this is one more time that we have to worry. Yeah.

Nha Vuu :58:54

I think as artists so innately, you're always challenging yourself. And so yes, We're in a pandemic. And yes, there's no more art shows. But this is kind of what we do on a daily basis is constantly trying to find new ideas. Trying to we always have to change even when the art shows are good. You have to figure out how to make it work. So you can't be complacent. Almost never. And so,

Chris Wheeler :59:22

yeah, you can be at a great show and still zero. Yes, right. I've done that. Totally.

Alex Velasquez :59:26

Yeah, we've, we've been there.

Nha Vuu :59:29

So you, you know, challenging yourself and always trying to think of different ways of doing things is kind of what we're bred for. And so I, I think the art industry will make it It might look different, you know, when we come out of it, but

Chris Wheeler :59:45

but I expect to see a lot of the same artists from before who've been doing it for a while

Nha Vuu :59:49

some of the veterans

Chris Wheeler :59:51

whether it's storm after storm for decades, they'll be fine like

Nha Vuu :59:54

your dad, your dad's gonna be bad. I'll be fine. Yeah,

Alex Velasquez :59:57

yeah, I'm gonna you know, I'm actually missing the art shows myself. And he was is kind of semi retired but I if we ever see another show and we ever end up in another show, man I'm looking forward to that.

Nha Vuu :1:00:10

For sure we are yeah we are. Yeah.

Alex Velasquez :1:00:13

Well I think that's a good place to end. Tell people how they can find you guys online, socia, all that stuff.

Nha Vuu :1:00:24

Okay, so Chris's website is www.PergamenaFineArt.com and that's spelled PERGAMENAFINEART.com. Mine is a little bit shorter. Mine is www.nhavuu.com NHA VUU .com. And we also have a Facebook page that we share. Just type in Facebook, Chris Wheeler or Nha Vuu. We both have Instagram pages. If you go on our Facebook page, you can click on the links to get to our Instagram page. It's also on our website as well. We're active on Pinterest, LinkedIn. We both have online galleries via Saatchi. And that's SAATCHI and Chris is also on Artful Home. Now if you can't find us through those other avenues. Good luck.

Alex Velasquez :1:01:28

Yep, that's it right there. All that'll be in the description and you'll see some activity for me on Instagram. I'll post a photo of the some of the pieces in the work and some of the studio shots. I think we've got some good some nice lighting today in Fort Collins. It's overcast and you know, it's like a it's a dream for photographers. So hopefully everything comes out good. And hey, we'll have to do this again. For sure.

Nha Vuu :1:01:53

That was fun.

Alex Velasquez :1:01:53

We'll have to add in. Yeah, you're very welcome. Thank you guys for doing it. And you know, being very hospitable in these uncertain times.

Nha Vuu :1:02:04

But yes, thanks for having us.

Alex Velasquez :1:02:06

All right. Peace out.

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